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Dishwasher panel cloudiness

10/31/18       
Matt

Hello, I just had a dishwasher panel come back to the shop with cloudiness in the finish on certain spots. The panel is Alder vennered mdf with an Alder frame around it like any typical door. It has an SW BAC oil stain and two coats of waterborne polyurethane. The dishwasher is a Bosch. They ran the dishwasher to see if it was heating the panel, it only got slightly warm(my guess is 85 degrees). As you can see from the pictures, the cloudiness seems to follow the grain. There is no evidence of water damage. The back has the same finish as the front, less stain on the center panel. Any thought on what caused this. I want to fix this correctly so it doesn’t happen again, but I don’t understand what happened. Thanks


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10/31/18       #2: Dishwasher panel cloudiness ...
rich c.

Any relation to the vent of the dishwasher? Our dishwasher vents really hot moist air during the drying cycle. See if they are using economy drying cycle, or some kind of high heat drying cycle. Almost sauna conditions right in front of the dishwasher.
Also, did you check the moisture content of the alder? If it was higher than it should be, the heat from the dishwasher may be drying the wood. That would trap the moisture under the finish.

10/31/18       #3: Dishwasher panel cloudiness ...
Bart

Put more finish on. 2 coats is way too little finish. I'm just finishing up two pigmented dishwasher panels. 6 coats on the face(plus caulking) and 4 coats on the backs. On stain and clears I put at least 5 coats on the faces and 3 on the backs (my standard is 4 and 2). Because of new energy efficiency standards DW's steam like crazy.

Also you'll want to ease the edges really well. One little bump or chip and the moisture will get in and cause the wood to move and eventually crack/fail the finish.

10/31/18       #4: Dishwasher panel cloudiness ...
Bart

One other thought was your oil stain dry? You can certainly get WB dyes and stains to get that color and are much more compatible with WB finishes.

10/31/18       #5: Dishwasher panel cloudiness ...
Matt

The stain was allowed to dry for 24 plus hours. I didn’t check all the different cycles of the dishwasher, that my be a good place to start to see if it’s kicking out a ton of steam, although none of the wood surrounding the opening is showing any signs of cloudiness. It’s always something.


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10/31/18       #6: Dishwasher panel cloudiness ...
Bart

Here's another option. I had a client spill some rubbing alcohol(cleaning orchid leaves?) on my GF finished cabinets. It clouded up something like yours. I took a microfiber towel doused with lacquer thinner (not drenched) and gently rubbed it out, the clouding disappeared. Do not overly rub on it you can damage the finish. Less is more. Could be some kind of cleaner or who knows in your situation.

good luck

10/31/18       #7: Dishwasher panel cloudiness ...
JM

A few years ago I had a similar issue with a waterborne, dont remember the brand. When water hit it, it would go milky, then after a few hours, it dried out and was back to clear.

You may just have some built up moisture in the finish from steam that may take a day or two to dissipate.

Wait a bit, and/or hit it with a hairdryer, and see if it goes away on its own. If it does, you need to find another finish. My finish rep told me it was a property of the finish. I told him it was not acceptable.

10/31/18       #8: Dishwasher panel cloudiness ...
D Brown

It looks a lot like Blush, caused by humidity or moisture or not allowing stain to dry completely . I get it at 55 degrees and raining, not good from my experiences.

11/1/18       #9: Dishwasher panel cloudiness ...
Matt

The stain was allowed to dry for 24 plus hours. I didn’t check all the different cycles of the dishwasher, that my be a good place to start to see if it’s kicking out a ton of steam, although none of the wood surrounding the opening is showing any signs of cloudiness. It’s always something.

11/13/18       #10: Dishwasher panel cloudiness ...
tiptop

That is the result of the dishwasher venting, I know, I dealt with it years go with a client and a Bosch d/w.

We had the clouding issue and if I recall the finish on the bottom stile had developed checking from the moisture of the drying cycle.

The kitchen was finished in MLC pre-cat, this was pre CV days. We popped the panel off after determining the cause. Took it back to the shop, beveled the back of the panel to help direct the air down instead of directly at the panel back.

Repaired the front of the panel and recoated with new pre-cat, but I isolated the edges, bevel and back panel and shot them with 3 coats of satin poly (solvent). No wb for me, tried it don't like it, period.

Bottom line, took care of the problem, homeowner was fine with the fix, all good. I did the same thing with a Bosch and panel in my own home and that's going on 14 years now with no issue.

I strictly shoot Axalta cv's now but no longer work in residential so I'm not sure how it would stack up. But I bet it would beat a wb anyday.

1/25/19       #11: Dishwasher panel cloudiness ...
JeffM

Make sure the end grains of the panel are finished exceptionally well. Moisture is wicking in through the end grain most likely, getting trapped and leaving the haze. Just as it does when spraying finish on a very humid day.


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