Total Finishing Supplies

Professional Finishing

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

pre cat

2/6/19       
rescraft

I have a couple of kitchen doors that are showing some wear [my project] around some handles & by the sink. Finish sched:
mohawk solvent stain, vinyl sealer-1 ct, pre-cat 2-3 cts. Any suggestions for repair? Shaker design, so stiles could be masked off to just affected areas. Any help would be appreciated. Thx

2/6/19       #2: pre cat ...
Shane

Could be repaired with some mohawk aerosols but in the end they will wear just as fast or faster.... Conversion varnish or catalyzed polyurethanes are just much tougher finishes for kitchen cabs....

2/6/19       #3: pre cat ...
rich c.

I was guessing precat before I got that far in your information. Sold as a miracle product, never met the hype in application. My personal solid cherry kitchen looks like hell, but it's been 26 years. Precat failed around the dishwasher, under the sink, and around the range hood. Strip and refinish with a better product is the fix.

2/7/19       #4: pre cat ...
Paul Miller

Website: http://MCCWOODWORKING.COM

I like Pre-Cat lacquers. I have been using then for thirty years. The thing I like most about lacquers and Pre-Cat is that you can top coat them. Sand the doors and you don't even have to remove all the finish. Then top coat them. If you hae a stain, you will have to deal with the color match if you sand through the stain. I have refinished jobs I have done 25 years ago and they look great. That is a selling point for going with Custom cabinets in the first place. You cannot do that with Conversion varnishes or polys.

2/7/19       #5: pre cat ...
Shane

you can absolutely sand and recoat Conversion Varnish if your using a quality product in the first place...A lot of us are confusing CV's with the days of old when CV's were super sensitive about reshoot intervals and they would wrinkle when reshot and all kinds of finish failures... wrinkling around sharp edges etc etc. This is not the case with the majority of the good ones these days.... They are very chemical resistant thus not to wrinkle on a reshoot... they do however need a strong mechanical bond and will need sanding thoroughly if repairs are needed.
If I were doing a kitchen for a paying client I would not use precat lacquer.. this cost difference in material is marginal, the difference in protection is not marginal..Far less humidity issues when spraying. shelf life for smaller shops is better... only catalyze what you need... honestly it's a win win....Especially when you have to go back to a client to refinish/match existing call back issues.... Back seal everything if possible.. especially the dishwasher and sink areas... false fronts for sink etc etc.... there's always the potential for water/heat damage around those areas and with the panel doors around the sink getting moisture in the unsealed areas of the stiles and rails if they aren't sealed around the inside edges.

2/7/19       #6: pre cat ...
Matt

Yes you absolutely can recoat CV, and I argue that it's easier than any precat product to do so, because it's far less likely to wrinkle when it gets hit with a harsh solvent.

Most of them are also non-yellowing, so laying another couple coats of clear won't make it even more yellow, the way most precats do.

The one caveat you must keep in mind is film build (which is also a concern with precat), you just can't go crazy thick.

To the original poster:
Depending on how bad the damage is, you can either strip and recoat, or just replace the doors altogether.

I have not sprayed Mohawk before so I cannot comment on it, but if I were in your shoes, I would look deeply into spraying something more durable. The only products we spray are conversion varnish and 2K Polyurethan, but 99.9% is conversion varnish. It's just far more user friendly as long as you buy a good brand. I have my preferences (AcromaPro and Sherwood/Kemvar) but there are other good ones out there.

2/7/19       #7: pre cat ...
mastercabman

No very hard to do
Because you use Mohawk products,you can get aerosol clear coat from them
And you can get a touch up marker/pen to match your stain(for small touch up areas)
Use 320g. To sand the area(use 220 if needed)
Clean with naphta
If the area is on the rail/stile,mask off center panel
Don't mask on any flat surface,you want to mask where there's a break(like center panel to the edges of rails/stiles
If you do,you will see a line when pulling tape off
Use your marker and touch up area
Use your finger to blend in
When satisfied with color, spray top coat
Do multiple thin coats
Mohawk do have vinyl sealer in aerosol if you want
Hope this helps

2/7/19       #8: pre cat ...
rescraft

Thanks to all.Going there Friday to check it out and will post back.

2/8/19       #9: pre cat ...
rescraft

Okay. Went to the kitchen in the above post and took a look. The areas that were the most evident of damage, were the top edge/side of the doors directly under the sink. There were also some wearing of the finish only on the edges of the doors. These were shaker cherry doors, with cherry hardwood panels. A few nicks here and there, caused by utensils, etc. In retrospect, I did not ease the edges enough before I did the finishing. So my plan of attack, is to remove doors back to the shop, ease the edges with 220-320, restain edges, mask off panels (they are all still pristine), fix any nicks, scrapes with Mohawk touchup products, and re-coat. This kitchen is almost 8 years old. The couple I did it for, her husband died a year or so ago. She asked me " how much is this going to cost?" I said, don't worry about it, I can take care of it. Any other ideas, suggestions for what I'm up against? If any problems come up another 8 years down the road, I think I may be retired by then. Anyways......
Thx

2/9/19       #10: pre cat ...
Shane

just make sure to clean them very well with naptha several times with clean rags each time so you don't run into any contamination problems...… shoot the backside of something first to make sure you don't get any wrinkling or finish failure from recoating and then go for it...

2/22/19       #11: pre cat ...
cwwoodworking

8 year warranty!!! I wish I could get that on my $47,000 van Im gonna buy! in 2.5 years, the whole thing is out of warranty.

Precat has its place. If I were to do kitchens, it wouldn't be it. I specialize in low cost very small runs. post cat would be awful. Precat is pretty darn good.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)