Total Finishing Supplies

Professional Finishing

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

High Build Piano Style Finishing

10/21/19       
Arthur grudko

Do any of you do multiple layer, high build, rubbed out finishing on cabinets, furniture and architectural installations?

10/22/19       #2: High Build Piano Style Finishing ...
Shane

Shhhhhhhhh….Be quiet.... we are all loving the low build open pore finishes in low sheens that's trending.

10/22/19       #3: High Build Piano Style Finishing ...
Bob Niemeyer

Website: http://niemeyerrestoration.com

Yep, have been doing them for over 40 years. Like Shane, also loving the open pore dead flat !!

10/22/19       #4: High Build Piano Style Finishing ...
dan shaf Member

I do. Including pianos. However even Ethan Allen has switched to off the gun, orangepeeled flat finishes. Look how far we've fallen. Steinway pianos are now done in polyester. Satinized lacquer (hand-rubbed satin) is only special order.

10/24/19       #5: High Build Piano Style Finishing ...
arthur grudko

Thanks, Dan, Bob and Shane. Your answers help me in my development of a waterborne piano coating.

10/24/19       #6: High Build Piano Style Finishing ...
Bob Niemeyer

Arthur, Just wondering are you reworking Pianolac? Looked for the website and couldn't find it. Also looked up Starhawk Labs and nothing.
Just wondering.

10/24/19       #7: High Build Piano Style Finishing ...
arthur grudko

Yes, Bob, the new Pianolac will be released soon.

10/25/19       #8: High Build Piano Style Finishing ...
dan shaf Member

Here's what has felled me with a rubbed waterborne finish: sanding through a layer of finish leaves me a witness line, meaning respray that piece. It's happened to me too much, too often and it's just one of many, many negative criticisms that I have for coalesced coatings.

10/25/19       #9: High Build Piano Style Finishing ...
Bob Niemeyer

Website: http://niemeyerrestoration.com

Dan, I have same thing. Even if you recoat with-in "wet on wet" windows.
Also, they tend to have more of the milky look when rubbed then their solvent counterparts.
There needs to be a waterbased coating where the polymer is not suspended by water but rather soluble by water.(waterbased solutions)
This would give us the "burn in" we get from solvent based coatings when applied "wet on wet". Then catalyze it so once the reaction occurs we have the durability we need.

10/25/19       #10: High Build Piano Style Finishing ...
arthur grudko

Dan and Bob,

You will both be happy to know that my new Pianolac formulation takes care of the witness line problem. There are no witness lines and no "wet on wet" windows. You can even spray over cured Pianolac witness line free.

Clarity is hard to believe. No haze, no bluish color, even with nine coats. Just a nitro like amber.

The black is as jet as the jetest polyester, without looking like plastic.

I will have a test board with the clear and black illustrating these features on my website.

10/26/19       #11: High Build Piano Style Finishing ...
Jonathan Mahnken

This stuff sounds like a dream. Ive been wondering how the pianolac thing was coming along...

11/7/19       #12: High Build Piano Style Finishing ...
Denny J

Arthur

When will you be ready to ship out samples?

11/8/19       #13: High Build Piano Style Finishing ...
arthur grudko

Here is a picture of a grand piano refinished in Pianolac by Jim Iallegio of Grand Piano Solutions in the Boston area. I made multiple small lab batches for him, and am cueewntly working on scale up to commercial production. I'll keep the industry informed. This piano was rubbed to a satin black.


View higher quality, full size image (2560 X 1920)

11/11/19       #14: High Build Piano Style Finishing ...
Jim Ialeggio  Member

Website: grandpianosolutions.com/

Having beta testing Arthur's, re-formulated Piano-Lac a couple of times recently...some feedback, for the community...

The black intensity is absolutely gorgeous. There is nothing out there like it, rich, jet, jet black. High build, no witness lines, a spray on filler that is real easy to use, no chemical stenches at all, even compared to other WB. Satin rubs to a black, as opposed to rubbing to gray as Lacquer does.

Like any product, there are somethings to learn, but, we have been working the process through and really, at this point, the whole finish process, for a high build Piano finish is pretty straightforward.

My own grail that I have been chasing in this regard is a low build, smooth to the hands, slightly open pore satin (somewhere between satin and semi) that is off the gun. No bloody rubbing. I have combined Arthur's amazing black with some clear topcoats to do this followed by automotive paste wax, and to my eye, and hand, I actually prefer it to the formal piano rubbed finish. But most pianos require a formal finish, and Arthur's is the only WB on the block, excellent right now and getting better with each tweak...congrats Arthur.

The other thing I like about working with Arthur is there is no manufacturer BS...info is truthful, right from the horses mouth, and if something didnt work, he acknowledges it and fixes it without telling you it was your fault.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)