Hello

I am thinking about unpgrading from a gravity HVLP to an AAA rig but since the investment is bigger than a hvlp (4000-5000$ vs 1000-1500$ hvl turbine) few questions arise (technical and logistical). Most people here agree that it would eliminate a lot of my problem (air heat, atomisation problem, overthinning of finish)

For the record I spray dye and CV 99%

I spray custom decorative furniture most of the time. I will sometime do things like dining table but never a full kitchen etc. I do one project at the time so I only spray one project at the time when it's done. My last project took a quart of cv at the most (and about the same for the dye)

Most people I see using AAA seem to spray gallon or more of that stuff wich is too much for my usage on most projects. Seeing the long hoses for such system it looks like the volume I spray would be just enough to barely fill these hoses before It even reaches the gun and begin spraying. Most feature suction hoses for 5 gal. I have seen the graco merkur with gravity hoppers. maybe they would be better suited for small quantities

Regarding air supply(for models without integrated compressor) how is it supplied. I would suppose an air compessor but most manufacturer state no clear PSI/CFM requirement for compressor. Maybe I am not looking at the right place or not looking for the right infos. (I am more familiar with HVLP and conversion gun AAA a new to me). This is making me lean more toward ''all-in-one" system with the pump and compressor thus eliminating the risk of having an undersized compressor.

Regarding cleaning I understand the necessity of flushing the whole hose system since cv seems to stick and clog everything it touches but how much volume does that take. Do I need a quart + of acetone/lacquer thinner/whatever solvent to flush adequatly of smaller volume would be fine.

Please understand that this whole system is new to me and what may seem obvious to you may be chinese for me more complex than hvlp. Manufacturer help but in the end their first goal is selling so almost all of them are telling me that AAA is the way to go wathever the size/volume of production I do.

If your volume is less than a gallon of finish a day then AAA would be overkill for you.....Although the quality of an AAA rig is supreme, the cost you would endure may not be worth the effort. Most of us here that are professional finishers are well over 5 gallons a day.... i'm in the hundreds of gallons a week tier.

i run both an HVLP setup, and a Kremlin AAA. i fire up the Kremlin when i'm doing a big run - bunch of doors, big cabinet parts, etc. i fire up the HVLP for small stuff, because cleanup is so much easier. the Kremlin sprays SIGNIFICANTLY faster, so i can move faster for large surfaces. but, for some things, that's actually a disadvantage - the HVLP is nice for face frames as i feel i have more control for inside edges and corners and such.

keep in mind, with the AAA setup, yeah, it uses a lot of material in the hosing and such, but you can reclaim the vast majority of it when you are done spraying. if it's a post cat, of course, you're generally hosed, because you can't keep it around... but if the pot life is long enough to reuse, you can pump out the quart or so in the hoses for the next spray session.

Thanks for your answer shane. As you guessed I am not a pro finisher but more of a pro woodworker. My order are generaly from the kind of people who want handcut dovetails on high end jewelry boxes with all sorts of exotic wood mix to give you an idea

I dont spray a lot of volume but can produce a lot of small projects at the time and my client are often willing to pay good money for "unique" pieces.

From just a volume of CV perspective. Can AAA work with only small volume of liquid or does it need a certain amount of fluid to function properly. I have read on other forum that having at least a quart of liquid is a must otherwise you will end up with spitting/spatter.

thanks to you david too.

Since 1 quart is generally the biggest amount of cv I use at a time and it's pot life is less than a day I am beginning to think that an AAA might be more waste.

as for small corners as such I spray almost exclusively unassembled to i mostly spray horizontaly or vertically for legs and such.

But just from a volume perspective can these systems work with just lets say a quart of liquid or would that be enough to fill all the hose and have some material left to spray?

Or Maybe I should stick to a hvlp.

I contacted the manufacturer of my CV a confirmed that it can be thinned more than what's written on the gallon wich would eliminate or at least reduce most of my hvlp problem (pinholes and too thick of a coat to avoid dryspray)

1/8th ID hose lines that are 10 feet long require 25 ml to fill.

1/4 id hose lines that are 10 feet long require 96ml to fill.

IIRC, you are also using a turbine.

If so, a non-turbine HVLP would almost certainly eliminate your issues.
People are spraying non-turbine HVLP guns with these kinds of finishes all day, every day.

and for units that comes without a compressor I have been looking at a ca tech standing unit wich does not have a built-in compressor. I was able to find the cfm requirement wich is about 6 cfm. my experience with conversion hvlp is that even if my 3hp 6cfm 5gallon meets the gun requirement it got the shit worked out of it. The gun could empty half the tank in a few second and it was constantly in a refilling state

2 sellers told me that their aaa could EASILY work with big bos stores compressor but imo almost no big box store compressor delivers enough cfm except for those that carry big industrial ones.

yeah a non-turbine, compressor-driven HVLP is a good option.

on the volume - there's the hose, but my kremlin also has a filter bank hanging off the pump that takes at least a couple of cups of finish. collectively it's at least a half quart --- or it feels that way when i pump it out. for volumes as small as you're talking about, stick with a good HVLP.

why not a good gun such as an apollo, converted to run off a compressor? put a 3M PPS system on it, and go to town. just a thought.

You don't need a high CFM compressor to run a AAA
I have the CA technology 14:1 pump and I can run it all day with a 2 HP compressor
If you only use a QT at the time then I think you wasting your money
A good gravity with a pps m3 set up will give you an exelent finish
But you will need a good compressor that can keep up with the CFM demand
They are some spray guns that is low CFM
CAT makes the j100 and the FE LCFM
Both gives very good finish
But if you still want to go with a pump
I got mine for $1900.00
I did get the hopper cup for an additional $100 but I don't care for it
I like to use my pump better and the cleaning is not as bad as you think
You need to evaluate your work load and make a decision on what's going to be more beneficial for you
Good luck and don't be scare to ask any questions you may have

thanks for your answer master cab.

this is exactly the model I want to get. I am currently reevaluating my finishing volume and it will probably increase thus justifying the investment. althought I generally mis small batch I can remember a small pine table that soaked cv so much that I ended up spraying almost 2/3 of a gallon of it

as of now I already have a makita 3hp 6.5cfm with a 5 gallom tank so i suppose air supply is more than enough. I assume its would be better to use a 3/8 air hose? but the model you state require 6cfm so it seem a bit to be pushing my compressor limit dont you think.

as for the volume of finish my question is not about how much is enough too make profit but about how much is enough to make it spray.

I have made test pieces with a turbine gravity gun using only 30 ml of CV wich was more than enough to spray without spatter/spitting fron lack of material but there is no hose/siphon to fill before spraying the cup being just over the gun. so I know I must make at least 30ml of cv to be able to spray even if the cleaning/worktime/etc is far from profitable.

AAA rig such as the CA you have comes with a 25' hose/a pump/a hose up to the hopper etc. so how much liquid would you estime to be necessary for it function properly(even if complete waste of money). I read anything from a cup to a quart to a gallon or you wont have enough material to spray adequatly.

Again thanks everyone your help is greatly apreciated since most sellers always seem to make it look like all benefits no drawback.

If your compressor is rated for 6.5 cfm and you are pulling 6cfm it will be running nonstop. The 5 gallons of air will not last long. That compressor is designed for nail guns.

Our basic setup to run the HVLP hi-transfer guns(65%) they need about 11cfm. It’s a 5hp 80 gallon 15cfm. Those guns will bury the tank surprisingly quickly. We have plenty of pipe and 3/8” hose.

Pascal
I use a Rolair VT 25 air compressor that puts out 6.5 CFM@90 psi
I think your Makita is an equivalent
It has no problems running my pump
Keep in mind that it will produce a little more CFM at lower PSI
I was told that my pump could run all day with just one of those Porter&Cable pancake compressor!? (I'm having a hard time to believe that but is it possible?)
Again if you're going to spray as little as a QT at the time,I don't think it would be wise for you to invest in a pump
If you do decide to go with a standard spray gun (gravity or pressure feed)you will need to look at those low CFM models if you want to use your current compressor
My CAT J100 gravity feed uses 5-6 CFM depending on the air cap I'm using and only 15-18 psi at inlet when depressing trigger
I have a mini regulator at the gun
Those gravity feed gun with the 3m pps cup are a breeze to clean!

thanks mastercab for your answer. this reassure me about my compressor. If I ever get one I will know that mine delivers enough cfm to make it work without burning itself.

and going back to that volume thing( I know same question). I am looking for the minimal amount of liquid it needs to work(fill all the hoses etc and start apraying) even if spraying such amount would be a total waste of money. As David stated earlier on his setup the pump suck up as much as 500ml (half quart) before it even starts to spray.

So I'm not sure about the amount of liquid it takes to start up but 500 ml or half of Qt sounds about right
If you are still serious about the pump then I would suggest to get a hopper
I have one but I'm not liking it
I just don't think it's worth the time and the amount of thinner to clean the machine for so little amount of material
I just use a gravity gun
Much faster to set up and clean
I try to use my pump as much as possible
So I would say that if I have at least 1/2 gallon to use then I go for the pump

I'd agree with other posters above, I have the CAT aaa and a Kremlin but would hesitate to buy one for what you're describing. We do mostly kitchens and larger furniture pieces so it works great for larger quantities but when it's something small I usually will use a hvlp gravity gun. I have an older turbine system with a 3M gun with disposable cups which seems would be ideal for your use. Quick cleanup, quick change. You can have a cup with dye, one with CV, and one with cleaner and switch in seconds.
We also do a line of cremation boxes and now use waterbase Target CV on those. Works and sprays great, super easy cleanup. Maybe consider that too.