Total Finishing Supplies

Professional Finishing

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Painted cabinets: Catalyzed CAB Acrylic Conversion Coating vs 2K Poly

4/1/20       
Jenny Member

I am deciding between a Catalyzed CAB Acrylic Conversion Coating (with a Hardener added to it) vs a 2K Poly for spraying kitchen cabinets. My clients want the finish to mimic the low-luster look of old-world paint.

When my clients get the painted look, they usually choose a bright white, grey, light pastel colors, dark navy blue or dark green.

Please see attached photos to see exactly the kind of finish my clients want.

CAB Acrylic product name:
1. SHER-WOOD® Acrylic Conversion Coating
- can be pre-catalyzed or post-catalyzed
- used as both a tinted sealer and tinted topcoat

2K Poly products:
1. Renner Italia White Primer
2. Renner Italia Urethane Pigmented Self-Sealer ZERO SHEEN
- both of these products can be tinted to any custom colors by manufacturer

Questions
1. What are the pros and cons of each system?
2. Which one is more durable?
3. Which one is more cost-effective?
4. Which one is better for transportation between a hot, humid climate and a dry, colder climate?
5. Is the Sherwood catalyzed CAB Acrylic Conversion Coating a solvent-based or water-based product?
6. If none of the products I am considering is suitable for my purpose, what other products do you recommend?


View higher quality, full size image (900 X 1200)


View higher quality, full size image (1000 X 1295)


View higher quality, full size image (474 X 640)

4/3/20       #2: Painted cabinets: Catalyzed CAB Acr ...
Daniel Berlin Member

This is a very detailed set of questions, wanted to make sure you got *some* response.

Here's the short version of an answer to some of your questions:

CAB lacquers and 2k urethanes are not even in the same planet in comparing durability/etc. The urethanes will blow away the lacquers. You will pay more for this
It is also very easy to get dead flat urethanes (IE 5 sheen, etc), harder with lacquers.

The rest of your questions are hard to answer because they are very subjective.
Cost-effective depends on whether you are optimizing for your straight cost, etc.

Also, the sher-wood line you mention is solvent based.

4/7/20       #3: Painted cabinets: Catalyzed CAB Acr ...
Jenny

Thank you Daniel.

I just ordered samples from Renner’s distributor MK Sales. I’ll definitely update everybody here about my experience and result with Renner.

4/8/20       #4: Painted cabinets: Catalyzed CAB Acr ...
Daniel Berlin Member

One thing i didn't touch on that may be worth knowing - the lacquers would probably be much more forgiving of bad prep/priming/etc than the 2k urethanes.

They will not bond as easily, so the use of proper prep/sealers/primers is often very important.

If you want to see what happens otherwise, you can see pictures of 2k urethane delamination on houzz's flooring discussions and watch the flooring installers blame the products rather than improper prep :)

4/8/20       #5: Painted cabinets: Catalyzed CAB Acr ...
Jenny

What are the more proper ways of prepping and priming? And how do most people screw up?

I have started a new post titled “ Rank multiple 2K poly finishing schedules”, which includes 6 finishing schedules I have observed from professionals from multiple countries.

I would love to get your opinions on things and at the same time, I hope my new post would inspire new ideas.

4/8/20       #6: Painted cabinets: Catalyzed CAB Acr ...
Adam

"I have observed from professionals from multiple countries"

Jenny,

What is your business, job description, experience, general background?

4/8/20       #7: Painted cabinets: Catalyzed CAB Acr ...
Jenny

Hi Adam,

I am British. I am in my twenties. I live in the US now but I lived in Asia and Europe when I was younger. I can speak multiple languages.

My family owns a hotel chain and I own a humble kitchen cabinet business here since my husband likes woodworking. I moved to New York for a banking job after graduation but realised later that I like interior designs better. Now I work on small construction projects here on the west coast.

Now you have to tell me about your background 😋

4/8/20       #8: Painted cabinets: Catalyzed CAB Acr ...
Daniel Berlin Member

"What are the more proper ways of prepping and priming? And how do most people screw up?"

To be honest, most people screw up by not following the directions on the product sheet to the letter.

Let me give you a practical example of differences -

With lacquer, you can stain stuff with a lot of different stains, and assuming it cured properly, it'll probably work to spray stuff over it.
If you are doing solid colors, you can use just about any primer, and it'll work. I'm overselling, but they are fairly simple.

With 2k urethane, you almost always must use sealer coats over stains. The types of stains you use *must* be compatible with the sealer.
Similarly, for some brands, they require certain primer kinds be used with certain topcoats.

Most 2k urethanes also have explicit directions on what grit to sand to before applying sealer or topcoat, etc.

Most lacquers have the same, of course.

However, if you ignore the lacquer directions, you can get away with it most times.
If you ignore the 2k urethane directions, you will rarely get away with it. It will probably fail.

4/10/20       #9: Painted cabinets: Catalyzed CAB Acr ...
mauricio poli

Let me answer your doubts:
1 - ready to use material is easier to use because one just apply and wait to dry. It is ok when you work with low profile people that do not know how to read and follow instruccions. But it has low solids and need to apply more coats to give the quality you want.
PU system is ok ONLY if you follow instrucctions. Need to do EXACT what say the techinical data sheet. In the end of the day all the left mixtures go to the garbage can. But it worth because you apply less coats and have less overspray loss.
One coat of PU is equal 2 coats of direct material (more or less)
2 - PU will resist better than others materials.
3 - PU has better cost/effectiness
4 - You need to wait 24 HOURS to package your furniture. It will resist with no problems since you follow TDS
5 - CAB Acrylic 2K is solvent material. This material will be more used in open pore finishes. Your pictures is PU system, closed pore.
6 - In my opinion use PU only. I used Renner in the past and it is a very good material, ask help to your distributor they are good people.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Sponsors
    • Simantech
      New & Used Machinery, Supplies, Tooling, Parts, and Abrasive Products
    • Supergrit Abrasives
      Industrial Quality Abrasives Manufactured by Leading US and Foreign Companies
    • Unique Machine & Tool
      Industrial Machinery for Door and Drawer Production
    • Carter Products
      Band Saw Guides, Blades, Wheels, Tires, Line Lasers and 2D Projectors, Wide Belt Sanding Accessories, Vacuum Holding Systems and More
    • SAMES North America Corporation
      Precision Spraying Solutions From Pumps To Complete Application Systems-Design and Manufacture of Process Equipment Including Airspray, Airmix, Airless, Rexson Dispense, Electrostatic and Powder Coat
    • EX-FACTORY INC.
      Offering New & Used Woodworking Machinery including Auctions & Liquidations
    • TotalFinishingSUPPLIES.com
      Solutions and supplies from spray tips to spray booths for all your woodworking needs

    Become a Sponsor today!