Hi everyone,

I run a small (one man) shop that does custom built-ins. I have been finishing them with mostly Ben Moore Advance and occasionally pre-cat lacquers. I have an Apollo 5 stage turbine with pressure pot which I purchased several years ago before reading that AAA is the really the way to go.

Anyway, at some point I'd like to expand into doing more kitchen cabinetry and am looking to upgrade my finishes.

I currently have a pretty primitive spray booth: an exhaust fan with furnace filters in the exterior wall of the shop and a plastic zip wall that I set up when it's finishing time. The "make up" air comes from an open window on the other side of the shop that passes by an electric heater when its cold. It does a good job moving air and exhausting overspray but like I said it's not a professional grade set up.

As such, I'm wary to start using the solvent based conversion varnishes, even though I've heard that's the best route to go for kitchen cabinet finishes. Are any of the waterborne 2 part finishes any good for kitchens? Sherwin Williams, MLC, Milesi and Lenmar are the brands that are readily available near me.

Thanks in advance for any help.

I think you are correct to stay away from solvent CV with out the proper ventilation.

I currently use Milesi 2K waterborne. Specifically their HKA/HKR pigmented finishes. It is a great product. In the wb realm it seams that many like Renner as well.
I am in MI and get my product shipped from Clark Deco out of PA. Great service.

Even though they are waterbased, they still have some pretty dangerous chemicals. Especially the 2K and other crosslinked/precatalyzed finishes. Still have to vent as well as you possibly can.

I would agree with Alan and Jonathan, both finishes pose hazards. Solvent based finishes are hazardous for your health along with the fact that they are very flammable and explosive.

Water based finishes are only hazardous to your health.

Your State , county or provincial laws, along with your insurance company will dictate what kind of spray booth/make up air combination you will be required to use. These determinations are for your health in the shop and also for your neighbor who might be walking by with their dog.
My recommendation would be to have a great spray booth as far as ventilation. Make sure you wear good PPE and get a good fresh air mask. When we are young we feel we are bullet proof , but when you get into your 50’s and older the effects of spraying with no mask or a poor one will come back to haunt you.

As for material I use ICA water based and it is as good as any solvent based product. Years ago water based was not great, but now there are a lot of fabulous water based finishes out there.

Thank you very much for the responses.

Does anyone know if the products from Target Coatings pose similar health hazards to the other 2k waterbase products?

And, if I were to invest in a better spray booth set up, any recommendations on a good manufacturer /brand? When I've looked on line in the past, it looked like the open-face ones were about $4-5 K. Does this sound about right?

Thanks again

I would say all solvent and water based products when sprayed are hazardous to your health. It is easy for the fine airborne spray to enter your lungs or through your skin.

I am not sure how much space you have or where you are located, but I have noticed a lot of shops that shut down have troubles selling their spray booths in my area. At auction quite often you are required to dismantle them and remove them , sometimes you even have to patch the hole where the exhaust exited the building.

Check out Global Finishing systems, they are a great manufacturer of spray booths, there are many good booths out there, open faced booths and automotive booths. I have only had global and binks, they are much the same, booths are fairly simple in design.

We sprayed ML Campbell 2K water for a while. Was a great product for us, incredibly tough for a waterborne finish and the build compared to any waterborne we've ever sprayed was amazing. That said, at a good bit over $100 bucks a gallon catalyzed its not something you shoot by default in my opinion.

I dont know if your considering 2K in the same league as post cat but I dont see any reason to be spraying 2K on kitchen cabs. We sprayed it mainly for commercial (school) clear hard Maple furniture where they wanted Low/NoVoC HAPS free, etc.. Great material but way to expensive for day to day use on cabinetry.

Agreed with the others that at least the Campbell 2K still has isocyanates in it which is something to be very considerate of.

We shoot all water, and shoot quite a bit of Target because of availability and cost per gallon. You can call or email Jeff and he will give you a bunch of info. You can run their additional cross-linker when needed (or always).

Personally I think your smart to stick with water. Its the way everything is moving from automotive right on down the line. Still a ways to go but Im happy to very rarely spray solvent from health/saftey/cleanup across the board.

Mark,
Which Target product are you using ? I have never used their products before. I have only ever used Becker, ML Campbell, ICA and sayerlack .

Weve sprayed a bunch of their 9300 for architctural work and use a lot of the 8300 for day to day stuff. The 8300 in my opinion is great for the money. Its hard, dries ridiculously fast, decent build (we pour on the first coat and cut it back hard). 2 coats and out the door.

I know there have been a lot of posts here that dont like Target and I may not like them either if we had access to a mile of other brands but we dont. Other than Campbell (which our local distributuion doesnt move enough water to support) we have to freight everything in. When you start adding freight, winter, etc.. Dealing with a bunch of vendors and then tacking the freight cost per gallon gets sketchy. At least for us. Other than 6000 so far target has never let us down and Im sure the 6000 was our issue and not their.

Will add that we sprayed Sayerlack AF-72 for a long while and liked it a lot. Great build as well. Drying times were a bit too slow for me. We had shipping issues with the Sayerlack from Sherwin industrial which couldnt seem to get solved so we moved away but it was a great product.

Mark ,

Thanks , I'm not totally clear on the difference between 2k and post cat finishes. I take it 2k is more expensive and more durable?

Do you have any experience with the 6500 pigmented lacquer?

I am a one man shop as well Phill and I will make and spray just about anything. Living in rural Wisconsin one can’t be too picky about work if want to stay busy. I used GF products for 13 years but two years ago switched to Diamond Vogel’s Aquinity waterborne finish. It is a single component two coat system and much cheaper than GF. They do sell a cross linker if one desires. It sprays and lays down very nice. Dries quickly and based upon my own testing is very scratch resistant and durable. I have had very good luck with the product

Haven't used any of their pigmented. Most all of the pigmented we use comes through sherwin industrial mainly because a lot.of it is dark colors that only they can formulate. Our local sherwin branches can't.