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Water based poly over oil based

3/8/21       
Phil Member

Hi ,

Does anyone have experience doing water-based polyurethane over oil-based polyurethane? I like the amber of the oil based but it takes so long to dry I am getting some dust nibs in it. Was wondering if I could use the oil based to get the color, sand out any nibs, then top coat with a faster drying water based poly. If so , how long should I wait for the oil based to cure? Thank you!

3/8/21       #2: Water based poly over oil based ...
rich c

You don't mention any product names, but in most cases the water based won't bond.

3/8/21       #3: Water based poly over oil based ...
Phil Member

Sorry, the specific products would by Old Masters Oil Based Poly followed by Old Masters Armor

3/9/21       #4: Water based poly over oil based ...
Adam

It's been a common issue for a long time. The wood finishing gods gave us Zinsser Sealcoat. It's dewaxed shellac. Amber, decent sanding sealer, pops the grain better than oil. 100% compatible with wb. What's not to like?

3/9/21       #5: Water based poly over oil based ...
Phil Member

Thanks Adam! Could I use SealCoat over an oil based stain , then go with a water based top coat.

3/9/21       #6: Water based poly over oil based ...
Phil Member

Also, on the Masters Armor (wb) can it says not to use over anything containing stearates? Do you happen to know if SealCoat contains stearates?

3/9/21       #7: Water based poly over oil based ...
MarkB Member

While the can is the can, most modern waterbournes dont suffer the issues of adhesion with stearates that happen years ago. Good wipe down with DNA or even water and there will likely never be an issue. But always good to follow the can.

In our experience is pretty tough to come across something you cant run WB over. While the WB wont cut into any finish (though Target says they have a burn in WB) with a good scuff/scratch my opinion is your pretty safe over most anything.

If your looking for a bit of the amber in a single application and you have access you may look into MLCampbell Magnamax H2O. It aims for that amber cast.

Im not a fan of shellac unless its necessary but its a decent alternative.

3/9/21       #8: Water based poly over oil based ...
John Member

Sealcoat shellac, as mentioned, would be a better alternative than OB poly first. But there are other ways to get the amber look of OB poly with a WB product. First, General Finishes EnduroVar has an amber tint built in. Target Coatings EM-2000 is even more amber because it's actually an OB varnish emulsion. MInWax makes a hybrid product as well.

Alternatively, you can dye the substrate or add dye directly to your WB topcoat to give you an amber tone. There are lots of ways to go about it. Putting WB over OB poly, however, is not a route I would take.

Be aware that some WB products craze when applied over a heavy coat of Sealcoat. Test.

John

3/9/21       #9: Water based poly over oil based ...
Phil Member

Really appreciate the feedback. On a related note, what would you recommend using as a stain if I use a WB product like Target EM 2000 or EnduroVar. I'm most comfortable with oil based stains (including gel stains) but again not sure of the compatibility between those and a WB topcoat.

3/9/21       #10: Water based poly over oil based ...
John Member

WB is best under WB topcoats, but I've never had any problems using oil based ones IF I wait at least 72 hours for it to dry. Not very good for a production operation to be sure. Products like SW's BAC Wiping Stains, however, can be top coated in only a few hours. In both cases, I spray a light coat of Sealcoat shellac first.

More recently, I've found if I add some of BM's Extender to a WB stain I have a lot more working time with it and it behaves more like an oil based product.

John

3/11/21       #11: Water based poly over oil based ...
MarkB Member

We spray almost daily over BAC, Ml Cambell spray and wipe (Woodsong II), etc. with no hours of wait time. Its not uncommon to have a remake of a part that will get sprayed in less than an hour and never had any issues whatsoever. I have never waited hours/days to clear over any stain though we dont use home center/minwax stains but I wouldnt wait with those either.

3/11/21       #12: Water based poly over oil based ...
Adam

MLC Woodsong is a very high quality stain. It’s got some fast evaporating acetone like solvent that make it dry quickly. Not surprising that it doesn’t bother wb topcoats.

We used it exclusively when we did solvent. It’s our go to under web when some architect specs Minwax golden oak.


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