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Mirror shine high build

8/22/21       
Craig

Currently using polyester for a high build high sheen. But it's a crazy amount of work on that last hurdle to a scratch free mirror shine..
I love the build I can achieve with the polyester but going to attempt using polyester to fill and smooth and apply a 90 sheen Conversion varnish as a final top.
I tried CV before for high build but was exceeding the final coating thickness and was experiencing shrinkage.
Any reason not to use the polyester as a build with CV final that's easier to polish out? School me if you can!
Thankyou

8/22/21       #2: Mirror shine high build ...
sam pettit  Member

Website: sheldonpettit@yahoo.com

Your not so much doing anything wrong Craig, but there are better ways with different materials to do it.
What I have been doing from about three years in working with polyester, is using over coats of automotive type, but formulated for wood use, 2K polyurethane s. My preferred one is from Delta Labs in Florida.!
What's nice about this product is it can, if desired, replace polyester all together.
Meaning it can be built up as thick as most polyester, but yet buffs out like a CV finish.
Or...it can be used as the final coat(s) after building with the POLY.
If the surface being sprayed is as flat as a piece of glass, then not much build is needed, especially on close grain wood species.
But even oaks or other deep pored woods can be filled up with 5-6 coats of the 2K Delta product. It, like the polyester,s are not cheap, but comparable in price, at least locally, but be prepared for a hefty shipping cost elsewhere.
If you need more info just get in touch ok?

8/22/21       #3: Mirror shine high build ...
Craig

Thanks! What does the polyurethane sand like and whats the dry time like?
The polyester is sandable in about 6 or 8 hours and it sands so good. Won't gum up paper at all.
I'm using an automotive approach to my polishing system. 3m trizact pads 1500, 3000, 100 maguires high cut compound and finish with 205 maguires. Many many hours, too many hours!
If I adjust the amount of accelerator or activator for the final top coats will the polyester cure softer? Be easier to polish out? Currently using the 2% suggested by manufacturer.
Thanks

8/22/21       #5: Mirror shine high build ...
Chemmy  Member

Like most all 2K urethane's, they sand as easy as most well regarded Cat Varnishes.
If your substrates are real smooth to begin with, for top coat applications, it will copy
( lay down): A like smooth coat(s) over it.
With Delta's 2K, I usually thin about 10-15% which also allows for added lay out/ smoothness, I personally do that only on large flat surfaces like conference tables or piano lids etc.
As to drying, if your talking the final coat I usually wait for a few days at least, but have done such the next morning depending on what the item(s) are, and how thick the coatings were.
I don't really do but two sanding operations
All my polyester is applied coat after coat at the slightly tacky stages, then left to cure, then sanded 120-150, then my 2K's are applied the same way. Which may be as little as 2-3 coats, or several depending on
The need of depth or DOI. Either way if your coatings are laying out smooth, the sanding steps should be minimal.
AS TO YOUR SYSTEM, .....
without knowing who's products your using be it Seagraves, Duratec, etc. I can't give further info that might be helpful.
As to your MEKP catalyst for your polyester, you really don't want to fool around with more or less.! Stick with what they tell you to use. You can ask your supplier if it is ok to thin out the polyester coating for the final coating that you apply before sanding, and their recommendation for the thinner to be used, which should be a keytone, but not acetone, it evaporates to fast.

8/22/21       #6: Mirror shine high build ...
Chris

I use ILVA polyester then use2 k urethane.
I find it very easy to use.
Let polyester cure overnight. Sand through wide belt then apply urethane sealer . Wait an hour then sand and topcoat

8/22/21       #7: Mirror shine high build ...
Chemmy  Member

Ok, thanks, So it seems the only problem your having is the polishing aspect, correct?
If yes, then it is just a matter of finding those compounds that give you the best and quickest results right?
There was a product that was made by chem craft, though I don't know if it's still available or not ... That was made up of cuttlebone in a heavy cream base that was very fast at producing a great high gloss shine without using further compounding agents afterwards. It was more of a paste than a liquid, but it was great stuff.!!
I used that exclusively, when I was with
OSF Canada And OSF America, which manufactured high-end finishes for the limited, Sachs 5 th Ave,
Victoria's Secret, Ambecrombe & Finch, Elaine Bryant, etc.
the Channel Store in Beverly Hills on Rodeo Drive, was one store that every piece of their black polyester was done with that product
To give the super high gloss shine that it had, that was back in 1994.... So I doubt it is still the same theme, but could be.
I will try to see if its still available, but I do not have the product number etc. Anymore.so don't hold your breath.

8/22/21       #8: Mirror shine high build ...
Craig

Yes, for that perfect look on a high end instrument. Near impossible to get a scratch free finish on the polyester.
It's not terrible and you need to look at it under light. Just not satisfied as I can't spend all those hours to get it to the standard I want, I have other stuff to do!
ICA system btw.

8/24/21       #9: Mirror shine high build ...
Kevin Dunphy

Website: http://www.kdunphy.com

I use to do a lot of high gloss finish in aircraft using polyester .There no easy short cut .
You have be discipled in sanding .
I didn't know you can mix polyester with CV or 2k .
Using CV is asking for trouble .
I use 2k for high gloss but doing very little Campbell has a great system easy to work with .
One last note you burn thousand of dollars on a large project

8/29/21       #10: Mirror shine high build ...
JeffA

Chemmy, its so nice to read your posts again.

8/29/21       #11: Mirror shine high build ...
Chemmy

We'll, this is my last on this post, though I started using polyester in 1980
I was not happy about how much work it was. At that time, the only 2K's around were meant for metal, cars more so than planes, since Imron was still the top choice. And in the wood finishing industry, the cat varnishes and 2 or even 3 k's were being widely introduced, Guardsmen being one such that was most prevalent in the still then premiere furniture companies in Grand Rapids.
I was highly impressed with the hardness they had, just a I had been highly impressed with Imron. But to be matter of fact, I found the industry to be going in the wrong direction, at least for my liking..
NO matter who's polyester or whose plural component systems I or anyone used, what you gained as compared to what you " gave up"... and what you had to charge to turn a piece out compared to older easier forgiving systems such as nitro or shellac or even basic solvent acrylics, just wasn't worth it....at least for me.
So instead of CONTINUEING down that road, I ramped up my
Salesmanship both to individuals and companies (designers/architects/ cabinet Co....etc.) to consider the the good properties of the older, but proven systems
Against the newly promoted systems that though impressive in two or three areas, they fell way short in most other areas.!!
With that in mind I began pointing out to all of them that no matter how hard or scratch resistant these new finishes were, they were still not scratch " proof" Most could even be scratched or dulled with 4/0 steel wool.!!
No matter how shiney they were, they would still dull with age and that shine would have to be restored at a much higher cost than the older but reliable systems would be.!!
AND THE topper was the comparison of the time the new finishes, though repairable, took to repair as to shellac, nitro, or acrylic were in comparison, that
Topped of with demonstrations of these differences as to time and effort and money saved, quickly made them converts to my reasonings.!!
Almost all, continued in their specifying the older finishes armed with the truth about their differences and the faults and tremendous increase in cost by comparison of the newer ones.!
Sometimes I believe going back is the best way forward in many scenarios in our trade and art. That said I admit that I still use the 2k Delta for those who just can't seem to live with out the deep clear thick glass like finish on their piano or other items.
AND I can live with that...since I hardly do any of that work anymore. But as to polyester? I have not shot an ounce since 94, and don't miss it at all.
The rest? I will leave up to you to decide.... it's your business, not mine..😊

8/29/21       #12: Mirror shine high build ...
sam pettit  Member

Website: sheldonpettit@yahoo.com

Thanks Jeff, I will only be posting on occasion, not like I used to, only on things that interest me and I feel I can give help or advise on..... Which is the way it should be..


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