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Subject: Re: 20mil vs 10mil

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Message Thread:

20mil vs 10mil

4/23/13       
Leo G  Member

Website: http://www.lrgwood.com

Pretty inexperienced with veneering but have been in the woodworking field for 20 years with my own shop.

I am making a curved wall desk, I will be using FlexBoard for the front of the desk which I will be using a vertically aligned ribbon striped Sapele'. I am using paper backed and have a choice between 10 mil and 20 mil. The curves are very gradual. One of the desks is somewhat an "S" shape and the other is a "C" shape with radius's on the order of greater than 9'.

I would prefer to lay up the veneer flat and then bend the FlexBoard, but that isn't set in stone.
This is a desk that will be used in the commercial world so it should be more durable than a residential project.

So, which would be the better choice for the thickness of the veneer for me?

Also as a side question. If it's listed as a 20mil paper backed veneer is the whole thickness 20 mil or is the veneer thickness 20 mil.

Thanks.

I'm sure I'll be in here a bit more often as this job progresses. :smile:

4/24/13       #2: 20mil vs 10mil ...
Wyatt

The mil thickness refers to the paper not the veneer. The veneer is the same thickness on both. I would use wood on wood aka 2 ply rather than paper backed if you need to use sheet veneer. I personally feel the bond is better. What method do you plan to use to adhere the veneer?

4/24/13       #3: 20mil vs 10mil ...
Leo G  Member

Website: http://www.lrgwood.com

Was planning on using epoxy or contact cement. Using FlexBoard which has a hardboard surface (not tempered). I need to find out how the veneer is going to react with the epoxy.

I don't have a vacuum bagging system or I'd use PVA.

Now that is a surprise about the mil rating. I would have never guessed the paper was what the measurement was for. Any idea how thick the wood veneer is going to be (best guess)?

4/24/13       #4: 20mil vs 10mil ...
Robert Member

My guess would be is that the veneer itself is thinner than a strand of human hair. Seems to be the norm now a days.

4/24/13       #5: 20mil vs 10mil ...
Leo G  Member

Website: http://www.lrgwood.com

That was exactly why I was asking about the thickness. Trying to find out what I'll have there to sand. I'm hoping it's not going to be the standard .015 that I've been seeing on 4x8 plywood. I really can't figure out how the heck they make it that thin and then expect us to be able to work with it.

4/24/13       #6: 20mil vs 10mil ...
Wyatt

It may vary by supplier but I was told the veneer on 10 mil is .020 and on 20 mil it's .035. You could buy loose veneer and seam it yourself. You would have much more thickness for sanding. I wouldn't use epoxy or contact cement. If you are planning on laying up the veneer prior to bending can you get someone with the proper equipment to press it for you with pva?

4/24/13       #7: 20mil vs 10mil ...
JeffD

Leo, I would call around and question your suppliers about the veneer thickness. I work mostly with domestic hardwoods and the veneer I get is a bit thicker than what I get on ply or mdf. The worst I've seen is foil backed at another shop I worked at. That stuff probably is as thin as a human hair! I've sanded a LOT of veneered panels over time and I've never encountered anything else that thin.

I would not use contact for veneer. If you do some searching on the web there's a lot of good info out there on veneering. I have a vac so use TB cold press. If you can swing it they're great tools to have. You'll find yourself using it for other things you may not have thought of before.

good luck,
JeffD

4/24/13       #8: 20mil vs 10mil ...
Charles  Member

Website: http://www.northcreekwoodworks.com

Here's my shameless pitch: We can make 2 or 3 ply wood on wood for you the exact size(s) you need and matched if req. It can provide it un-sanded or hit & miss sanded if you wish ( we rarely use tape on our faces). The best way to apply 3 ply (unless you have a press of some sort) is to contact cement it except for a 3/4-1" area around the edge which can be white glued.

FYI: most veneer these days is cut at .024" (1/42"); i doubt anyone would make a paper back product at .035, but who knows.

4/24/13       #9: 20mil vs 10mil ...
Rich

If you don't have veneer equipment, why veneer? Ribbon stripe sapele isn't hard to get as solid stock. Why not glue it up like barrel staves and be done with it. No messing around with questionable gluing methods, or thin veneer that are tough to sand.

4/24/13       #10: 20mil vs 10mil ...
Charles  Member

Website: http://www.northcreekwoodworks.com

.....because it will not match and will probably crack...or maybe it won't. Can't be sure.

4/24/13       #11: 20mil vs 10mil ...
Leo G  Member

Website: http://www.lrgwood.com

Because one desk is 17' long and the other is 9'. It would take too long and be to cumbersome to do it that way.

4/24/13       #12: 20mil vs 10mil ...
JeffD

Be fun to check the shrinkulator to see how much 17' of solid sapele will move seasonally:>0

Yup....veneers the way to go.

JeffD

4/24/13       #13: 20mil vs 10mil ...
Leo G  Member

Website: http://www.lrgwood.com

Ya, that would be the other reason ;)

4/25/13       #14: 20mil vs 10mil ...
Rich

Nice to know the desk is 17'. Maybe a piece of information we could have used in the beginning. Charles, Solid wood would not match what? And why would it crack? There must be some information around this post I don't know about.

4/25/13       #15: 20mil vs 10mil ...
Charles  Member

Website: http://www.northcreekwoodworks.com

Rich:

Not match: As in inconsistent color, aka the butcher block look. People (not all) like the consistent look of veneer.

Crack: As in when the wood contacts over 17 ft of width (which we now know) it will split. If a 17 ft wide solid panel contracts 1/2 of 1 %, that would be 1" !!!!!

No need to 'esplain.

On a positive note, you are correct about vague descriptions and lack of details. Drawings should be required with questions per the above.

4/25/13       #16: 20mil vs 10mil ...
JeffD

Hmmm, I agree in general that more info = better questions = better answers.

However when the question is specifically about veneer characteristics and the OP never mentioned solid wood in any way so was never part of the conversation..... I think the OP was fine here;>)

JeffD

4/25/13       #17: 20mil vs 10mil ...
Leo G  Member

Website: http://www.lrgwood.com

Either way.

I ordered the 20 mil.

The veneer is a pathetic 1/42"

Thanks for the insight

 

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