Message Thread:
Titebond Cold Press glue for profiled doors
9/6/13
I am laminating 10 ml pp Anigre veneers on 3/4" MDF that will have a slightly profiled edge (Amana 49550 table edge) in a vacuum bag. Both faces will be pressed at the same time for balancing. Edges must be pre-edged on our Holzer EB prior to the edge detail. I've made several sample doors with Titebond II, but would like to know if their "cold press" is more ideally suited here. The cost of these veneers has got me jumpy, as well as bad experiences of checking as cited in other threads, so this also is a concern. Any help and input is greatly appreciated.
9/6/13 #3: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
Have the samples worked? If so run with it. I personally prefer to use urea in a vacuum bag,never had a problem with it
Titebond is a water based glue that cures as the water evaporates, urea dries by chemical reaction. Theres no air in a vacuum, so although the titebond will eventually cure in a vacuum, there's no guarantee it will reach it's full holding potential.
9/7/13 #4: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
Thanks, Rich. Although the samples have held up, they really haven't had the test of time. Which UF brand do you prefer and is one easier in application and more effective than another? I know that the resorcinol resins leave a heavy line, so I can't use them on this one.
I'd still like to know about the Titebond Cold Press and why it would be used for veneering, but when I read that it is an "economical" substitute for contact cement I stepped back with questions. I'll use a good UF glue for this project. The reviews on it are hard to contest.
9/7/13 #5: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
I use the cold press for bag veneering and haven't run into any problems with veneer not holding up. I do leave parts in the bag longer than I would normally clamp in open air. Usually shoot for about 2-1/2 hours. I'm not even sure where and when we came up with the time line, but its worked for years. One of these days I should call TB just to see what they have to say about cure times in a vacuum:>)
good luck,
JeffD
9/7/13 #6: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
Thanks, Jeff. The longer set time in the bag is really going to extend the job duration, even though I have the smaller and larger bag and two pumps. The samples we made we left in the bag for about an hour, but from what I have been reading the PVA glues will soften with heat. This project could be subjected to interior temperature change as it is inland from LA and in a "pool house" ( a mansion by my standards). I'll run a sample with the cold press TB and see how it performs.
9/7/13 #7: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
Pool house? If this means it will be exposed to constant warm moisture I would think about moisture resistant mdf and something more water resistant like resin glue. All my work is interior so no experience with pool houses:>0
If you have 2 pumps you can press more than 2 bags if needed. A manifold and a couple extra bags would double your output for fairly small upfront cost;>)
good luck,
JeffD
9/7/13 #8: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
One of the pumps is for a solid surface system and has several ports available, so maybe that extra bag would be a good purchase. Good idea!!!
The internal ambient moisture from this huge pool (think Hearst Castle) could be a huge concern. For starters, the UF choice over PVA will help, but the core might indeed be a problem even though the room is on the second floor and some distance away. I just hate call backs...even after 5 years :(
9/7/13 #9: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
I used to use cascamite by Borden on all my vacuum bagged parts, and they went into boats,never had a problem.I would have to say that's a pretty moist environment. If moisture is that big of a concern, I would go with a good UF and Medex. You won't lose any sleep.
9/7/13 #10: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
The reality of it is, any moisture problems that happen start from your edges not from your face,ever notice how entry doors to homes always start to rot from the bottom? That's because a lot of people paint the face and back of the door and fail to seal the bottom. put a good 1/8" wood band all the way around the doors with a good quality glue, and I guarantee, you won't have any problems.
9/7/13 #11: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
if pre band is not an option, then take your e-band pre glue it with titebond, let it 90% dry then iron it on. You'll have a strong as hell, moisture resistant band.
9/7/13 #12: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
I just veneered crotch mahogany to a Chippendale style bathroom vanity using the iron and it worked great, but there is a tremendous amount of lineal footage in this project.
Do you have any thoughts on Dorus glue cartridges for automatic edgebanders? I've been using this machine and Dorus since 1994 and the bonds have been consistently strong, but you've got me wondering about the longevity in a possibly moist environment. The anigre wood tape is by Framatech (typical 600 ft. rolls).
9/8/13 #13: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
I personally do not have any experience with that particular e-band system. When it comes to wood,one of the biggest enemies is moisture so no matter how many precautions you take and how well a piece is constructed there is always a slight chance that a problem will arise in a moist environment. The only approach we can take as craftsmen is to inform the customer of the potential problem that the environment in which the piece will be placed in may at some point have problems. It's really the customers responsibility once the piece is installed to care for and protect it. Furniture is just like anything else, cars, TV's,refrigerators,etc, they break down over time, that's what contracts are for. I know I went a little off base here, and I understand everyones concerns when it comes to these issues, but with all the changes that are going on with the materials due to environmental concerns, FSC, LEED,NAF, all we can do is continue to educate ourselves and our customers about what we do and do our best. Only problem is, theres a lot of so called woodworkers out there who take the cheapest, easiest road for a quick buck and give the true craftsmen out there a bad rep.
9/18/13 #14: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
I'd use 1.5-3mm edgebanding and Dorus HKP 25 (prime the back if using HPK 21).
I'm pretty sure cold press has fillers (e.g. walnut shell powder) to help minimize bleed through on unbacked veneer. Cold press is not as strong as Titebond II (2,508/656 VS 3,750/1,750 psi @ room/150 degrees). Cold press does have a longer open time, but its "Not recommended for exterior use or where moisture is likely."
9/18/13 #15: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
Thanks, Dave. The EB is probably less than 1.5, but we've used it before on many jobs. I'll go out and check on which Dorus ID it is. My Unibond 600 arrives tomorrow, so we can start with our test run very soon.
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