I've got to laminate 24 gauge sheet steel to baltic birch for a pair of Thermador refrigerator panels. Customer wants magnetic and blackboard. A buddy will cut the panels to size (including ice maker cutout) on a water jet. Testing with a few 12 x 12 pieces, to see what will hold up - especially with the water jet. So here's what I'm going to test:
- Titebond II (Amazingly, this is what Franklin suggested)
- Wilsonart red contact adhesive
- Polyurethane (Gorilla) glue
Obviously, I need it to bond perfectly and flat, as in the attached pic from a Chipotle table.
Anyone got another product I should test? I'm iffy on epoxy for this application. I have access to a 5 x 9, 20 ton press.
Ive done some testing, and have found Gorilla brand glue excellent. Interestingly - the Franklin guy was right - Titebond works, as well.
Testing ends tomorrow, and I'll post results later.
Question: I have found that I really need to clamp (press) the steel so that it lays perfectly flat on the substrate. Pressing won't work with epoxy (although one guy suggested using nylon screen material to keep the steel x-mils off the plywood a bit). Do you press your Gorilla glue projects?
Karl, yes I press all my Gorilla glue projects and my epoxy ones as well. You can turn down the pressure on your vacuum pump for the epoxy gluings (you might need to modify your pump and put in a valve between the bag and the pump to bleed off pressure).
You do want to make sure whatever your pressing the metal onto is smooth as well as the platen in the press (no stray bits of dried glue, etc) or they'll damage the metal and you'll be doing it over. You could use just a sheet of 1/4" mdf against the metal to be sure though.
So testing is done. I've bonded the steel to 3/4 D3 Maple (Columbia) with Titebond II, Loctite Polyurethane, Gorilla, and Wilsonart (Red) contact cement. Over 4 days, I've rotated them from freezer to hot sun several times. No delam on any of them. I'm taking them to the water jet tomorrow, and see if the centers of these 12x12 panels are stuck as fast as the edges.
I'm pretty sure I'm going with Gorilla glue - mostly because I need to use a product I can press hard. We'll see.
So I've been contacted to post results. Here they are:
I had said that I was going to use a friends 40 ton press instead of a vac-bag, because I was concerned about little kinks in the steel not lying down properly. Little did I know....
I stacked my steel and plywood sheets in the truck, finding they were too long for the bed. No biggie, I thought, just going down the road. When I got to my buddies shop, the bed was empty. I frantically backtracked - no steel, no plywood. Then I noticed a group of framers who were working near my shop, and lo and behold was my pile, which they had rescued from the road after it slid out. It was dented a bit from having been run over once or twice, but I didn't have time to run and get another sheet.
So I really need a bunch of pressure on it, to iron everything out. Ha!!
Anyway, so I ended up using Gorilla glue, although all the glues performed fine - even Titebond II. I used Gorilla because they were the only manufacturer who told me their product was specifically formulated for dissimilar glue-ups like this.
Rough plywood with 80 grit, steel with 30 grit.
Trowel glue on wood. Trowel made from plastic laminate, notched 1/16 deep on bandsaw.
Mist water on steel.
Sandwich lamination between two sheets of 3/4 particle board (nova ply).
Press overnight (I'm sorry, I cannot remember what the poundage was set to)
The press flattened all the kinks and dents from my "accident". I was able to bondo a couple of deep scratches since they were at the bottom and wouldn't affect the magnet.
Its been 6 months now. Although I haven't seen it, the customer would surely let me know if there was a problem - and I am scheduled to do their kitchen cabinets some time in the spring.
FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards(return to top)
WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
A valid email return address must be included with each message.
Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
"Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.
You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.
WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.
Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).
Libel: Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.
Improper Decorum: Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).
Advertising: The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).
Repeated Forum Abuse:
Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.
There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).
The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)
Forum Posting Form Guidelines
The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines
Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Thread Related File Uploads
Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .FLV .MP4 (Image Upload Tips) If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
The editors, writers, and staff at WOODWEB try to promote safe practices.
What is safe for one woodworker under certain conditions may not be safe
for others in different circumstances. Readers should undertake the use
of materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB after considerate evaluation,
and at their own risk.