Professional Finishing Forum

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

pigmented conversion varnish or tinted pre cat

3/12/16       
Ryan Groff Member

Hi everyone,
I have currently been using Kemvar plus for my sealer and for my pigmented finish I use a tinted pre cat lacquer over top, it looks great I'm really happy with it, but I am concerned about yellowing over time, but don't know how significant the yellowing will be it is a sherwinn williams product from the chemical coatings division it says it has UV absorbers in it to prevent yellowing, is this something to be concerned about? My other option is CV, I have never sprayed it and I am told it is a little more fussy with application and in the winter keeping the temp right makes a huge difference, etc.I am getting into some higher end kitchens and such, what do you guys use and recommend ?

3/13/16       #3: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Leo G

Learn to use CV

3/13/16       #4: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Robert Member

Ryan, Leo speaks not with fork tongue. The CV is a far better choice of coatings in more ways than one.

3/14/16       #5: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
kevin

i would like to add that sherwin williams CV is alot more forgiving than their lacquer when it comes to climate. Lacquer will blush when its cold or wet. Ive never had an issue in the many years ive sprayed CV from hot, cold, wet, or dry conditions. Not "fussy" at all. Just have to make sure you catalyze correctly and use what you mix or dispose of it. You dont want to get into the problems associated with using CV that was catalyzed a couple days ago, trust me.
Also, its a bit tougher to make repairs so make sure your spray technique is on point. If you get drips or sags be preparred to wait a day before you can scrape it flush with a razor, scuff, and recoat. Other than that, its a no brainer. CV is the way to go!

3/14/16       #6: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Ryan Groff Member

Thanks Kevin for the response, very helpful. One more thing id like to ask is do you have to keep the shop temp continuously up for it to cure properly, When i leave the shop i turn the temp down to about 55 degrees, it sounds like to me in your experience this is not an issue?

3/14/16       #7: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
kevin

not an issue. CV is an acid cured product. Sure, it will cure faster when its warmer, but it will cure regardless. We just went through a few weeks of cold (45-50 degrees in south florida is COLD TO US!!) and had no issues whatsoever. Take into consideration that it was 85 degrees one day and 50 the next. No issues.

Basically, everything sprayed today is ready to stack/pack the next morning.

3/14/16       #8: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Leo G

CV is affected by cold like that. So, 6 months down the line when the finish is checking and cracking, you'll know why.

3/14/16       #9: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Paul Snyder  Member

Website: finishing.tips

Every new product you spray will have some learning curve involved and you'll have to make some minor adjustments to thinning, spray gun settings, or spray technique. It's normal and not a big deal. The same is true for different products from the same manufacturer as well as the same type of product from different manufacturers.

You should get the tech data sheet for whatever product you use and follow the instructions. The amount of catalyst varies by brand as does the pot life and dry to stack time. One thing that is universal for ALL catalyzed finishes is the requirement to make sure everything is at least 65 degrees Fahrenheit when you spray it and while it's curing. If you go below that, the finish will not cure properly and may fail prematurely as Leo pointed out.

I attached data sheets from 3 brands of conversion varnish. They all have temperature related requirements that are highlighted.

Click the link below to download the file included with this post.

Becker_Acroma_Matador_White_CV_TDS___Temperature_Highlight.pdf

3/14/16       #10: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Paul Snyder  Member

Website: finishing.tips

Here are the other 2 data sheets;

3/14/16       #11: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Paul Snyder  Member

Website: finishing.tips

Not sure what the problem is, but the data sheets aren't attaching to the post - something to do with the forum software here.



Click the link below to download the file included with this post.

Chemcraft_Chemlife_Clear_Conversion_Varnish_TDS___Temperature_Highlighted_3.pdf



Click the link below to download the file included with this post.

Sherwin_Williams_SherWood_WW_CV_TDS___Temperature_Highlighted_3.pdf

3/14/16       #12: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
kevin

Hmm.. maybe i should call up all the hotels ive covered in paneling and ask why they havent called me regarding warranty issues with checking or any other finish failures... Then again, we are in south florida, and cold is rare. This year i think we got a total of 5 weeks under 70 degrees.

But i stand by my statement. I have not had any issues with cure time due to cold.
And ive been doing this for quite a while.

Again, 47 weeks out of the year here is 80 degrees + ... but we dont stop working during those 5 that are below 70. And we sure as heck dont own a heater !!!

3/14/16       #13: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Paul Snyder  Member

Website: finishing.tips

I could use a week or two of that sunshine right about now....

3/15/16       #14: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Mike

Kevin,no heater? YOU suck :)
I have 4 furnaces in shop and one for office!

3/20/16       #15: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
jimmy cream

ill share something with you guys . I've made test boards with CV .......breaking all the temp rules , and the over-mill rules .

one board was sprayed and allowed to flash , then immediately set outside in about 40 degree temp ( drizzly/rainy also , but not rained ON ) ; then dried / cured overnight in un-heated attached garage . another was cured in my basement...temp un-known , but well below the suggested range . both those boards were monitored for months...no problems . I should look around....maybe I still have them .

Ive also done test boards with HUGE over-millages . if i remember correctly , one was in the 8 mil range ( 3 coats I think) . and yes , Im talking dry mils ..... three coats shot at something like 6 to 8 mils each ( measured with a wet-mil gauge ) . that one I kept an eye on for a few months also....no problem last time I saw it . pretty sure I still have those , so Ill dig them out again . I think I did cat-primer/tinted CV and clear CV samples like that .

Ive never done over/under catalyzed samples , but Im pretty sure I know what the results would be .

also did some over-mil samples with 2 part urethane . poured on and measured at over 20 mils as it was setting up .

with that being said ....no , Im not saying that the rules of catalyzed coatings are meant to be broken . I follow them religiously .

3/20/16       #16: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Leo G Member

I've got my own tests going on myself.

Had a drawer front that was coated properly with MagnaKlear, a pre cat. It was a few years old. I decided to spray it with Krystal, a post cat. I expected it to wrinkle almost immediately. But nothing. It is now about 6 month since I sprayed it and it's still in great condition.

Just the other day I had another drawer front from the same batch and I put Polarion on it, a 2k Poly. Again, I expected it to do something catastrophic, but nothing. But that was only a few days ago. So we'll see what becomes of that too.

3/21/16       #17: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Lucky Louie

Life is great until it isn't. 5 out of 6 people surveyed following a game of russian roulette said it was fun. The 6th person was not available for comment.

3/21/16       #18: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Mastercabman

Lucky Louie
That was funny!!
I myself don't understand why would anyone take a chance with finishing just because someone had no problems with their experience after not following instructions

  • Post a Response to this thread
  • notify me of responses to this topic
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)